tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post8604100681430677269..comments2013-04-15T07:56:48.545+05:30Comments on Carnatic Latté - Brewing Ideas: Happy December Season!Rithvik Rajahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15276000369200205803noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-58032270233800931492013-04-15T07:18:10.078+05:302013-04-15T07:18:10.078+05:30@At all the Clueless and respected Pakki Paiyaas /...@At all the Clueless and respected Pakki Paiyaas / ponngals !!! Edhukaga da padaringaa? To connect with Param-atman or to appease Audience ? all of the above maculay putra & putris, get your basics right first. Just try to answer yourself the following Questions :<br /><br />1. Who are you?<br />2. Why are you Singing?<br />3. What are you singing?<br />4. What is the meaning behind each krithi /pallavi you are singing?<br />5. What was the aim of the composers?<br />6. From where the composers derived their knowledge for composing?<br />7. What are the roots of carnatic music? (Vedic Roots)<br />8. What is your Dharma as a Musician?<br />9. What do you know about its evolution timeline?<br />10. What got changed / distorted / obfuscated in our civilizational intelligentsia due to effect of colonization?<br /><br />11. Look at all of us, we are using English as the medium of communication to even discuss about this music which is very alien to this language itself? What a pity? Isn't something drastically wrong " its like learning greek in tamil" !!<br /><br />If you guys don't think now !! All of your ventures ahead in future is going to go down the drain for sure. First Know for yourself, the answers for all these questions. The Carnatic music has already reached its lowest ebb in recent Carnatic Symphony ..Shame !! If you think these points now, it may save you from selling your conscience in future.<br /><br />By,<br /><br />A Carnatic Musician & A Sanatana Dharmi <br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-81346102204036918752011-01-02T17:51:45.600+05:302011-01-02T17:51:45.600+05:30@Bharat: MAdhayama shruti for a main! Imagine the ...@Bharat: MAdhayama shruti for a main! Imagine the plight of violinists!carnaticfreakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10842065593643426380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-86365176509477489062010-12-20T05:22:07.755+05:302010-12-20T05:22:07.755+05:30@Sandeep : makes sense..@Sandeep : makes sense..Arunachala Karthikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06570593460636206662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-61182641214388857792010-12-20T01:00:39.151+05:302010-12-20T01:00:39.151+05:30@Arunachala Karthik - Trends ARE documented. What ...@Arunachala Karthik - Trends ARE documented. What you are talking about is documenting RULES. Which I disagree with...<br /><br />As music evolves, it is being documented through audio/video recordings, blogs, song-lists, reviews, forums, etc etc. THAT is the documentation so that after 50 years people can look back and see what was the norm in 2010.<br /><br />However, there are no RULES to be documented, because who would say what is the right or wrong rule? Who are you or I to say what is the 'rule' and document that?<br /><br />For example I have issues with some of the points you included and failed to include in your comment regarding the 'composition of a concert.' So right there, there is no 'rule' on what can acceptably make up a concert, rather trends and informed decisions that people make.Sandeep Narayanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05835298700270606178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-75807846038905381122010-12-18T06:19:30.410+05:302010-12-18T06:19:30.410+05:30@Vivek : nice observation.. I think Hindustani mus...@Vivek : nice observation.. I think Hindustani music has the liberty of having more time to handle individual Qayals and Dhrupads..like say 45 mins for an item..they can afford to start slow, speed up in small slices , ( unlike in Carnatic music , where only nadai change causes change in speed), and exhibit their voice culture skills .Arunachala Karthikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06570593460636206662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-21480184838512809922010-12-18T06:15:20.817+05:302010-12-18T06:15:20.817+05:30the point is to make sure someone doesn't end ...the point is to make sure someone doesn't end up rediscovering the wheel after 50-60 years from now ; by just looking at the documented format , he knows these forms already existed at some point of time in the history of Carnatic Music!Arunachala Karthikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06570593460636206662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-76226665893506103382010-12-18T06:12:51.663+05:302010-12-18T06:12:51.663+05:30@Sandeep: why I think that there is a need to docu...@Sandeep: why I think that there is a need to document is because music is evolving everyday taking new forms , which become tradition later on..! how many of us still remember the 7-8 hour concert which existed about 50 years ago ? (I think that format is extinct now..) and how many of us vote for the mic-less concerts ? these things will become like something new after 50 years from now , if not documented today..Arunachala Karthikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06570593460636206662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-77542199719145409482010-12-18T00:21:06.129+05:302010-12-18T00:21:06.129+05:30@Arunachala Karthik - Absolutely no need to docume...@Arunachala Karthik - Absolutely no need to document such things. There aren't rules for a reason, why create them just for the sake of documentation?Sandeep Narayanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05835298700270606178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-72224422267560090822010-12-17T22:25:48.845+05:302010-12-17T22:25:48.845+05:30@Sandeep : "There aren't 'rules' ...@Sandeep : "There aren't 'rules' for song-list / concert format." - I think it is very true .. but don't you think there is a need to document the rules ?Arunachala Karthikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06570593460636206662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-85975633939968386652010-12-17T21:07:19.582+05:302010-12-17T21:07:19.582+05:30Just a general wonderment - I love warm up pieces ...Just a general wonderment - I love warm up pieces in Carnatic music -varnam, faster song etc. But, it is interesting that hindustani musicians start off with singing the slowest of aalapanais. I wonder what differs that makes Carnatic concerts need/perform better with a warm up piece.Vivekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05480939225520536900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-30229362286585539292010-12-17T00:00:50.707+05:302010-12-17T00:00:50.707+05:30@Arunachala Karthik - Everything you posted seemed...@Arunachala Karthik - Everything you posted seemed to be 'part and parcel' - And not necessary to be followed by all anyway. There aren't 'rules' for song-list / concert format.<br /><br />There are norms, which change anyhow. (Please see Rithvik's innovation vs. tradition thread).<br /><br />Sounds good? Good. Sounds bad? Sing at home.<br /><br />:)Sandeep Narayanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05835298700270606178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-40241944511666689112010-12-14T11:56:27.749+05:302010-12-14T11:56:27.749+05:30@Rithvik.. absolutely.. but acceptance is again in...@Rithvik.. absolutely.. but acceptance is again influenced by a lot of other factors! for all we know, this discussion may not even interest some people who refuse to accept it. are we not suppose to do it then?Revathy Kumarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16676267850359591944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-77395701404605239972010-12-14T08:34:38.345+05:302010-12-14T08:34:38.345+05:30@Bharat : vow :)
PS. : thinking of one Kurinji RT...@Bharat : vow :)<br /><br />PS. : thinking of one Kurinji RTP sung by TNS sir(I think ) , the difficulty with that RTP was that it kept shifting between madhyama sruti and sama sruti in parts for the ragas Kurinji and natakurinji ..it was amazing that the violinist managed really well..Arunachala Karthikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06570593460636206662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-65252986833256183372010-12-14T08:26:53.543+05:302010-12-14T08:26:53.543+05:30What about a MADHYAMA SHRUTHI ragam as main ? :)What about a MADHYAMA SHRUTHI ragam as main ? :)Bharat Sundarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03520700944476147897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-75327399816980687932010-12-14T07:29:21.461+05:302010-12-14T07:29:21.461+05:30@Ritvik :
1.the warm-up piece could also be a sho...@Ritvik :<br /><br />1.the warm-up piece could also be a short kriti , with nireval and rounds of swaram!<br /><br />2. the tendency of the fast kriti/varnam (warm-up) may be to take the concert in the same pace, which may give a hurried feel to the concert...thats y slowing down is so much required..<br /><br />3.Without restrictions just means , it can fit anywhere ..not necessarily main or sub-main<br /><br />5. Come on , don't say you sing Mysore Vasudevachar kritis only in a thematic :) and btw nireval is such a part and parcel of the concert , that I took it for granted that it will be there in the concert...just like the main.. and I will vote for slow paced nireval and then the madhyama kala nireval , if it is possible in that kriti!Arunachala Karthikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06570593460636206662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-82222233933275695792010-12-14T00:02:37.476+05:302010-12-14T00:02:37.476+05:30There have been a lot of comments here so I am goi...There have been a lot of comments here so I am going to try and respond to a few here<br /><br />@Gokul: When I said cramped, I meant the exact same thing that you mentioned - about the possibility of having a 'sub-main' and 'tukkadas' which I don't think should be compromised on either.<br /><br />@iamwhoiam: Just FYI, there have been many special concerts for Thiruppugazhs - The famous Alathur Brothers Concert is the best example. So I personally don't see anything wrong with singing one as the main piece.<br /><br />@Bharat: I completely agree with your point. And wrt ragamalika shlokam, I think time plays a role!<br /><br />@Revathy: I like your interesting take on tradition and the ‘bhakti element’. And wrt the point of classicism and aesthetic, yes it can be interpreted differently by different individuals and can vary but each art form has its own boundary within which all these interpretations fall under. If it falls outside the broader view, then it may not be acceptable.<br /><br />@ Arunachala Karthik: <br />1. I strongly differ from your classification of the Varnam as 'it's a warm up piece' :)<br />2. A Vilamba kala krti should be there in a concert for a difference in kala pramanams like you said rather than just using it as something to slow the pace down!<br />3. I agree that there should be one prati madhyamam but not necessarily as a 'sub-main' and what do you mean by 'without restrictions'?<br />5. I would be more specific and say possibly the trinity compositions should be there unless it is a thematic presentation which is rare.<br />Just a question though! How come there is no mention of a Neraval in your list?<br /><br />@Sri Ranjani: It is usual practice but generally there isn't time for that in a 1 1/2 hour concert right? And interesting thought as the navaragamalika varnam being sung as main!Rithvik Rajahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15276000369200205803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-41505027294078912362010-12-13T10:43:10.437+05:302010-12-13T10:43:10.437+05:30@RANJANI - a navaraga malika varnam as main... int...@RANJANI - a navaraga malika varnam as main... interesting ! :)Revathy Kumarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16676267850359591944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-62549723881596746442010-12-13T05:48:12.894+05:302010-12-13T05:48:12.894+05:30@Sriranjani : thats great :)
@Bharat : I thought ...@Sriranjani : thats great :)<br /><br />@Bharat : I thought for sometime about including vivadi raga.. but I feel , they will lose their value if sung too frequently... it is just my opinion though and it will differ from person to person..Arunachala Karthikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06570593460636206662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-24204993601906836632010-12-12T22:34:04.857+05:302010-12-12T22:34:04.857+05:30Including a vivadhi raga in each concert?Including a vivadhi raga in each concert?Bharat Sundarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03520700944476147897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-32234505361851511702010-12-12T22:30:36.998+05:302010-12-12T22:30:36.998+05:30Its usual practice . Yes. But i feel its fadingIts usual practice . Yes. But i feel its fadingBharat Sundarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03520700944476147897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-73198219516215959982010-12-12T22:28:17.229+05:302010-12-12T22:28:17.229+05:30Singing a Shlokam after main in raga malika is usu...Singing a Shlokam after main in raga malika is usual practice isnt it?<br /><br />I think that we can take up a raga malika song itself(like perava vara or even the navaraga malika varnam) as main.Sri Ranjani Santhanagopalanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09880924157842080504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-27716037057656171322010-12-12T22:20:49.666+05:302010-12-12T22:20:49.666+05:30Singing a ragamalika slokam after the main .. Does...Singing a ragamalika slokam after the main .. Does time play a role in this?? Or can we try finishing the main piece earlier.. Thoughts ?Bharat Sundarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03520700944476147897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-59634347899321767922010-12-12T22:05:12.665+05:302010-12-12T22:05:12.665+05:30@Revathy: Beautifully said :) The "Bhakthi El...@Revathy: Beautifully said :) The "Bhakthi Element" very important indeed :)<br /><br />@Karthik: Whoa.Thats an exhaustive list.. well coined too :) I just finished preparing a concert list and Im glad it satisfies all the above said requirements. :)Sri Ranjani Santhanagopalanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09880924157842080504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-91681149400905982872010-12-12T20:58:36.400+05:302010-12-12T20:58:36.400+05:30@all : my opinion about the composition of a conce...@all : my opinion about the composition of a concert . we can add on this - <br /><br />1. Warm-up - a known varnam chosen mutually by vocalist and accompanist - with/wo Kalpana swaram - it's a warm-up piece , so it should have been fast, atleast after charanam .<br /><br />2.Vilamba kala kriti - could be short or long based on the overall duration of the concert - just to slow down things ..<br /><br />3.Atleast one Prati-madhyama raga kriti in a concert - could be a Thirupugazh sung as sub-main or main , or anything , without any restrictions <br /><br />3.One rare raga kriti per concert<br /><br />4. Compulsorily swara kalpana in the main piece in the slower speed ; it is pretty irritating to find artists skip that beautiful part . They are missing something in life .<br /><br />5.A concert to include atleast 3 composers .<br /><br />6.Atleast one audava shadava raga kriti<br /><br />7. Minimum of 5 mins for thani for each of the pakka -vadhyam and upa-pakka-vdhyam artists .<br /><br /><br />8.Rest of the song selection can be left to the artists , depending on the concert duration . In other words , we could have this format just as a skeleton to which more items can be added by the artist if he/she has more time .Arunachala Karthikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06570593460636206662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7335062989381686595.post-25766857812228507742010-12-12T20:52:18.574+05:302010-12-12T20:52:18.574+05:30@rithvik - classicism and aesthetic can also be in...@rithvik - classicism and aesthetic can also be interpreted differently by different people i thinkRevathy Kumarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16676267850359591944noreply@blogger.com